Hot take: State/Province registration is stupid.

"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
12/04/2018 at 17:46 • Filed to: None

Cars should be registered by the Feds in the US, Mexico, Canada, Australia, and any other country that still lets their local governments carry out automotive registration. I have my reasons.

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Some states use plates as a way to individualize their cars, but plates should not be individualized. In fact, the sole purpose of a license plate is to show no individuality.
This could also help when designing speed cameras or any sort of information filter.

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If perhaps a bit harder to grasp, there is a real life example in Mexico. Back in 2012 Felipe Calderon allowed states to take over road taxes. While most states removed them inmediately a number of them kept them (ie: the more urban ones). What does this mean? Well, because of a tax-evasion scheme alike the Montana plates in the US, Mexico City looses two billion pesos a year to road-tax evasion.

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Like, many years ago I guess that running a federalized system like this would be impossible. But think of everything that the feds do nowadays, and then realize that printing plates isn’t that hard.
Yet state DMVs are super shitty at it, and it takes more people cooperating for more crap.

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Appart from registration, licenses should also be given by the feds.

In Mexico City right-on-reds are illegal, but everywhere else, those are legal . Also, in every other state drivers to your right have the right of way, in Mexico City it’s marked. In many states a test is required to attain a licence. In Mexico City we still don’t have one, yet my license is as valid here as it is in any other state, how come?

If we all worked under one system these kinds of mistakes could be avoided, and predatory fines (quirks in local traffic laws) could be easier to spot and remove.

DISCUSSION (39)

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 17:55

Why do we do it state by state? States have different requirements for licensing drivers and plating cars. For instance, in the state of Ohio, there are no inspection, and not even all counties have emissions testing. This is obviously not the same as other states, such as California. Different states have different needs. In California, where population density is higher, there is a greater need for emissions controls to be tied to plating due to the immediate effects of emissions. In another state, such as North Dakota, where population density is much lower, there is much less need for emissions controls.

facw > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 17:56

This seems pretty obvious to me as well, but unfortunately if you even start to talk about any sort of national ID system here people get completely freaked out.

I think the way you’d have to do it would be to start small an allow DOT to offer an optional national license, as well as national plates and registration and force states to accept them as a condition or receiving federal highway funds. Even them there would be a whole mess of things to sort out though.

Spanfeller is a twat > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
12/04/2018 at 17:57

I mean, such is true in Spain as well, but my cars still have national plates.

What would happen in that case is that, if I live in a county that demands an inspection (Madrid, Barcelona, or any other city), I can ask for it at the inspection office and get a sticker.

My whole argument is that states shouldn’t allowed to impose some things (like whether you should be forced to get an inspection or not or what is taught in driver’s ed )

Tripper > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 17:58

If this would allow me to drive an imported car home from port instead of trucking it, I’m all for it!

Spanfeller is a twat > facw
12/04/2018 at 17:59

“ This seems pretty obvious to me as well, but unfortunately if you even start to talk about any sort of national ID system here people get completely freaked out.”

Oh I heard about this... It’s a big part of why banking security and identity theft is particularly bad in the US.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 18:16

Ah, misread. Essentially you’ve found the root of many American political problems- States Rights.

Spanfeller is a twat > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
12/04/2018 at 18:20

Oh, the holy grail of problems...

It seems like a really stupid right to fight for. If it were guns or weed I’d sort of get it....

Maxima Speed > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 18:24

Ummmm nooo!!!!!! Absolutely not!! The federal government doesn’t need more authority than it already has and we don’t need everything more centralized.

Spanfeller is a twat > Maxima Speed
12/04/2018 at 18:28

I mean... I can think of many things a state should do that feds do, but this is one of the few things where it is the other way around in my mind.

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 18:29

You make good points, but states’ rights is a BIG thing up here. The idea that the federal government should have a very limited role and that the states should manage most of their own affairs goes back to the founding of this country. I can see both sides w.r.t. driving/licensing, but IMO things are already uniform enough where the feds don’t really need to do more than publish guidelines.

Sales tax is another thing which confounds non-Americans. Unlike e.g. Canada we have no federal level sales tax/VAT and states are free to set their own.

nj959 > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 18:33

Obligatory CGP Grey video:

CaptDale - is secretly British > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 18:34

Literally goes against the idea of United States of America. A state is an individual country in most cases. Thus if plates were federa l that would be like the EU making plates for every country there. It doesn’t work that way.

Nibbles > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 18:35

Our government couldn’t even keep a proper list of families in detention, what makes you think they could handle a dataset of millions of drivers and vehicles?

Our government is seriously inept as fuck when it comes to keeping track of anything. I’d rather have my state handle it. Not to mention if the feds dealt with it, then there’d have to be some sort of measurement for which states get what percentage of funds. That’s another thing they’d find every way to fuck up bey ond measure

Spanfeller is a twat > jimz
12/04/2018 at 18:37

I suppose that some good can come out of it, some flexibility in registration can be good for some states. But it's also kind of a double edged sword thing... At least here it is. The feds gave states the right to tax vehicles, but then they gave them very few tools to impose those taxes efficiently.

In reality it’s kind of a moot point outside the US. I mean, the feds already keep a database of all plates here (and all of them are serialized except Mexico City plates) so I just think it’s an americanismo more than anything else.

LongbowMkII > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 18:38

We have lots of states that are bigger than Spain.

Spanfeller is a twat > LongbowMkII
12/04/2018 at 18:42

Only two in terms of area, and only one in terms of population.

Lit erally only California has more registered vehicles than Spain.

Spanfeller is a twat > Nibbles
12/04/2018 at 18:46

Those are valid points too. But the feds can keep track of stuff.

I mean, there are like 120,000,000 passports in the US, and they issue eleven million visas every year.

Spanfeller is a twat > nj959
12/04/2018 at 18:48

actually, I change my mind... I’ll find a way to register a Japanese import in Montana and Florida simultaneously.

Nibbles > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 18:55

That they do; those two systems are very mature

I’m having a hard time remembering a recent system the feds took on that they didn’t screw up stupendously, particularly when the originating data came from disparate sources (like licenses and registrations would)

I’m not saying they can’t. I’m saying I have no faith in them doing even a partially reasonable job of it.

Spanfeller is a twat > Nibbles
12/04/2018 at 18:58

I understand your concern.....

Perhaps I have different op inions to many american oppos because here it’s a bit the other way around: state governments are incompetent and the feds are less incompetent.

Spanfeller is a twat > CaptDale - is secretly British
12/04/2018 at 19:09

I don’t think the EU is such a great point of comparasion because their plates are pretty much standardized already.

My car’s registration is an European Car registration (it is printed in multiple languages, the plates follow the European requirements in fonts and size, and the driving licenses are also EU compliant. It’s a lot more homogeneous than in the US.
Leeway is found in taxes I suppose, but even there it’s mostly because the EU isn’t really a executive government as much as a congress.... taxes are collected at every level over there.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 19:14

It is the only sort of government body I could think of with the same size and scope as the US.

All I am saying is as individual states it makes sense that they would dictate their own licensing and protocols for vehicular ownership.

Spanfeller is a twat > CaptDale - is secretly British
12/04/2018 at 19:20

I just think that it's one of those things that states shouldn't really have a say in.

CaptDale - is secretly British > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 19:23

Why? Germany is one state and does it, Italy is one s tate and does it. Even Mexico does it by State. Canada does it by state. Makes more sense for size of land. The regulations needed in Michigan are not always what are needed in Arizona . Just like Bulgaria and France don’t have the same needs and ideas of what to do.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 19:24

I figured it was going to come down to a discussion of states’ rights. To be honest, I don’t really get it but I’m not American so it doesn’t really matter.

In Canada, I’ve wondered why we don’t have a country-wide, standardized health card; license is another thing, too. AFAIK I don’t really know people with an attachment to the province; maybe to their hometown or the country in general but you don’t have that, “I’m a PROUD Ontarian, not a Saskatchewanker!” kind of attitude here.

Spanfeller is a twat > CaptDale - is secretly British
12/04/2018 at 19:41

Because (atop all of the reasons on the argument, and what I explained about EU car ownership) cars move.... unlike any of the things states are used to regulating.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 19:41

States in Australia work differently to how you might imagine or even how they are in Europe and (most especially) America.

Closest approximation with Oz may be Canada.

Australia is a Federation of States. As such, the States are charged with the task of delivering services based on funding provided by the Federal Government. As Federal funding is rarely sufficient for all needs, t he States source further revenue from the provision of those services. Management of motor vehicles is one of those services...and for whatever reason, it works and it has always worked. Probably due to arrangements negotiated through COAG (Coalition Of Australian Government s).

Spanfeller is a twat > gin-san - shitpost specialist
12/04/2018 at 19:43

Oh, but you forgot about the province that is always remembering.

Spanfeller is a twat > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
12/04/2018 at 19:44

So... Australia’s PM isn’t the head of the executive government in the country?

CaptDale - is secretly British > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 19:48

Eh I guess. I mean it would be nice if CA wasn’t an ass about emissions , but CA is asses about fucking everything. So maybe I’ve just given up.

Maxima Speed > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
12/04/2018 at 19:49

What? You do realize the original intent of the nation was to be a conglomerate of many independent “ states” who worked together for mutual benefit, right? It was never the intent of the founders to trade a sovereign over the water for an oligarchy here at home. They also recognized the cultural and economic differences of the distinct states in the union. The requirements and needs of Virginia were necessarily different from those of Delaware. The same is true in the modern day. I as an Ohio citizen should not be imposing my will ( by extension of the government) on the citizens of California. Likewise they should not be allowed to im pose on me. This is because we necessarily have different perspectives and needs. Further evidence of this is reflected in the duality of the House and Senate. Many people believe we are a federal democracy but this is not and was not supposed to be the case. If it were so, the states with the highest population would necessarily rule over states with lesser population. The Senate mitigates this by balancing out these forced in recognition of the dangers of representatives of distant populace holding sway over a smaller, weaker state.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > facw
12/04/2018 at 19:55

I’m very pro federalization and exceptionally pro socializing everything from banking to utilities to most industries. I don’t talk about it too much around these parts for obvious reasons.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Maxima Speed
12/04/2018 at 20:50

Right, the nation was originally a conglomeration of states, but that was when incorporated under the Articles of Confederation, under which the nation saw rebellion and economic depression, resulting in those same articles being overturned in favor of the system we now live in, with a stronger Federal government which defers certain matters, such as commerce taking place within a singular state and emissions, to be legislated by individual states.

What I meant is that the issues of what is/isn’t/should be/shouldn’t be legislated by a state instead of federally, such as vehicle plating and operator licensing, are pervasive in American politics.

Spasoje > Spanfeller is a twat
12/04/2018 at 20:56

There’s also a simple reason why that wouldn’t work – there wouldn’t be enough plate combos to go around.

W i t h a s t a t e - b a s e d s y s t e m , y o u c a n break up the millions of cars into g r o u p s ( i . e . regions) , instead of making a twenty-character license plate that nobody can remember when they need to.

Spanfeller is a twat > Spasoje
12/04/2018 at 21:15

If you change one numerical character to alphabetical in the California plate, you’d be able to register around 390,000,000 licenses.

Right now it’s 9XXX999, so if you did 9XXXX99 I don’t think it would bother anyone.

Mexico has two serializations; XXX-99-99 and X99-XXX .. which means we can have more cars than people!

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Spanfeller is a twat
12/05/2018 at 00:25

Sure...but theses days it’s more of an honorary title that’s mostly dependent on how you are doing in both the polls and the party room...

pip bip - choose Corrour > Spanfeller is a twat
12/05/2018 at 02:00

plates here are controlled by the states.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Spanfeller is a twat
12/05/2018 at 11:28

Ironic that I did not souviens

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
12/14/2018 at 18:14

I’d like federated road laws though. The current laws about slowing down for emergency vehicles is a prime example of how letting the states do their own thing can lead to confusion.